Engaging Your Dream Donor

What's the secret to finding and engaging dream donors? Jim St. Louis, Senior Regional Director at Washington University in St. Louis, introduces us to donor Paul Koulogeorge as they share what works when it comes to building strong relationships between donors and gift officers.

Jim and Paul show us what's possible with true philanthropy partnership, and we recap five key takeaways when it comes to developing your own dream donors.

Know  More. Raise More. is presented by Insightful. The team at Insightful knows connecting with donors is hard. That’s why Insightful helps fundraisers like you better know your donors (and the people you would like to be donors) so you can: 

• Raise more money
• Advance your mission
• Do more good in the world

There’s a big change happening right now affecting fundraisers. Over the next decade, up to $70 trillion dollars will shift from aging baby boomers to millennials. This wealth transfer is already underway.

Are you prepared to work with millennials?

Start by downloading Insightful’s free ebook:
9 Insights Fundraisers Need to Know to Prepare for Millennial Major Donors. Just head to insightfulphilanthropy.com/ebook

Transcript

Jennifer Trammell: 0:05

Welcome to"Know More. Raise More." the podcast for fundraising professionals, where we share firsthand stories from donors and gift officers who have real relationships, working together to change the world for good. I'm your host, Jennifer Trammell. Imagine your dream donor. Of course, there's money involved, and they're generous, very generous to your organization. Beyond treasure, they've also given of their time and their talent. But you know what, it's really more than that. They are truly engaged with your mission. They're willing to do outreach and bring others along, and you genuinely enjoy spending time with them doing good together. On the podcast today, two special guests, starting with Jim St. Louis. He's a Senior Regional Director at Washington University in St. Louis. And he's built just these kinds of relationships. As you might guess, it didn't happen overnight. Today, Jim's bringing us one of those real relationships so we can learn from this amazing example of philanthropy partnership. Listen up for five key takeaways when it comes to developing your own dream donors. No more raised more. The podcast for fundraising professionals is brought to you by insightful, insightful helps improve engagement between nonprofit organizations and donors. We know connecting with donors is hard, insightful, helps fundraisers, like you better know your donors, so you can raise more money, advance your mission and do more good in the world. Jim St. Louis from Washington University in St. Louis, welcome to Know More. Raise More. the podcast for fundraising professionals.

Jim St. Louis: 2:11

Thanks for having me.

Jennifer Trammell: 2:12

We are so glad to have you. And we're gonna meet your special guests here in just a few minutes. But first, tell us about Wash U what makes this university so special?

Jim St. Louis: 2:22

Well, you know, Washington University is an amazing place. It's one of our country's leading research institutions. And it's a place where undergraduates, graduates, PhD students, they all can come together, they can focus on their areas of interest, it can be in the law school, which is one of our country's leading law schools, it's highly ranked. Our Brown School of Social Work is doing amazing work, noting not only here in our community, but across the country in the world. We have a really top notch medical school. And our undergraduates all want to get involved in, they're looking for opportunities to really make a difference. It's just a really an amazing place. Wonderful, wonderful. Students come from all over the world to attend Washington University. And it's just the things that I've really grown and call my home now.

Jennifer Trammell: 3:16

And tell us more about your role at WashU.

Jim St. Louis: 3:19

So my role at Wash U is I'm a Senior Regional Director, I focus on a specific area of the country for the most part, where I go to outside of New York City and Manhattan, Philadelphia, I go to parts of Florida. And I'm really trying to connect donors to our mission, as well as being the person in the community that can just bring everybody whether you're a parent, you're an alum, you're just a friend of the university, kind of bring them together and start forming a community of WashU supporters within that area. How do

Jennifer Trammell: 3:55

you go about that? How do you go about forging those connections with alumni with community members, and ultimately, with potential donors?

Jim St. Louis: 4:03

I take the long view on Jennifer, where I'm really trying to develop relationships. So I go out and I've always tried to meet as many people as I can I try to be available. I make a lot of phone calls, a lot of emails, seeing if people are around if they just want to come out to events if they just want to talk about Washington University and what their thoughts are. I love to hear their stories. The stories of our alumni are truly amazing. Whether you've, you know, left Washington University, gone into a career change careers. Everyone has this wonderful story in Washington University really wants to know everyone by their story.

Jennifer Trammell: 4:44

And we're going to learn one of those stories today. You have brought to us Paul Koulogeorge. Jim, introduce us to Paul, please.

Jim St. Louis: 4:52

Well, Paul is a great, great man and I've really enjoyed getting to know him over the years. past decade plus, Paul is actually one of the very first alumni that I've met with during my first year at Washington University. And we met on campus, he came back to campus for a reunion. And I was at that get together, I don't know if it was the 15th, or the 20th reunion, we won't want to date Paul. So it was just wonderful getting to know him over all these years. He's had a successful career. He has many different areas of interests. And currently, I think he's in love with his dog.

Jennifer Trammell: 5:35

Well, Paul, Welcome, we are so glad to have you with us.

Paul Koulogeorge: 5:39

Thank you excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jennifer Trammell: 5:41

Tell us a little bit more about how you got reconnected with WashU. And coming to meet Jim.

Paul Koulogeorge: 5:47

I graduated from washing University back in 1988. So a fair time ago. And I've always had some level of involvement, either attending local alumni events, or going back for a reunion here or there. But Jim and I formally met back, I'm going to say about 15 years ago, he was taking over the Philadelphia area for washing University. And we just started talking, having conversations about what washing University was doing, how we could get more engagement with the alumni in this geography. What would be ways that we could contribute? Because you know, giving is not just about making a donation, it's about making a difference? And so how could we from this distance, because Philadelphia is good, you know, almost 1000 miles away from St. Louis, how can we from this distance really make a difference? And help current students help the parents of students help the alumni help the whole institution as a whole? Just, you know, take it to greater heights?

Jennifer Trammell: 6:43

And ultimately, what did you decide to do? How did you increase that Washington University presence in Philadelphia?

Paul Koulogeorge: 6:51

A few things. One was in terms of more variety in terms of the events that we had, there's a role for social events where you just get together and meet at a bar, there's a role for educational events where you bring out professors from the university, or outside experts to speak, there's a role for we do we do pretty regularly museum tours. So we're having a private docent led tour of the museum when it's not open to regular members, regular people, you know, early in the morning or late in the evening. So doing special, unique experiences. And people really respond especially to I would say experiential events, where they feel like they're getting something unique just for them. And it really touches them upon the university. So having maybe an art professor from the University come in, and hopefully to tour at the art museum have a special exhibit kind of connects the difference of the access you get from WashU, but also the what you learn and the educational elements as well.

Jennifer Trammell: 7:49

In my experience, it makes a difference when it's engaged alumni like you, Paul, who are working side by side with staff to run these events. So Jim, I'm curious, from your perspective, what's the impact of that when it comes to engagement.

Jim St. Louis: 8:05

So getting somebody involved really is about listening to them. I want to know what interests each individual has. And then I can try to match them up with what we're doing in Philadelphia and on campus. And by doing that, you just associate more, you really get interested in what we're doing. And you're really just trying to find that passion in that in that match together. And there are different ways that we go about that, not only with events, but when I was meeting with Paul, I noticed he had some leadership qualities. And that's one of the things I look for in our alumni. And we have a small group of alumni leaders in the area. We call it our regional cabinet. And I invited Paul to come and serve on the regional cabinet, which is an honor that we have to get the our chancellor to approve up. So Paul was invited to come onto our cabinet. And through the years he's been active, he's given really good advice to us. He has shown his passion for Washington University. And then he's eventually he's become the leader of that group.

Jennifer Trammell: 9:13

Oh, why did you want to get involved that way? By giving your time back to the university?

Paul Koulogeorge: 9:18

Yeah, I think because, one, I'm a big, big lover of the institution. I feel like Wash U is a incredible educational leader in the country, and one that made a great difference in my life in my career. So I want to, you know, give back to though I think, you know, there's a lot of benefit that you get by taking people with a shared passion and interest and watching you together. From a networking standpoint, because we're in similar businesses, from a social standpoint, just reconnecting the way that we can help parents of students at the university so a lot of our events, we have parents who didn't go to watch you but their kids go now and we can help them kind of understand both the landscape of St. Louis and the school and we can, you know, kind of lend us a helping hand. So there's, there's a lot of ways that we can really make a difference from this 1000 mile geographic gap from St. Louis, we can still reconnect with this institution that was part of all of our lives,

Jennifer Trammell: 10:17

by engaging people with events by connecting with parents even who have students at Wash U, what does that mean for you, Jim, when you go to meet with someone new, has that groundwork kind of already been laid?

Jim St. Louis: 10:29

Absolutely. It really is groundwork so I have a platform to stand on already. You know, cold calling in our business is really hard. Even if you're a student, you're on the phone, and you're just calling a random alum. That's still a really hard phone call. And by having interaction by making myself a real person, rather than just the name, which people by the way, get confused all the time. They think I'm Jim, from St. Louis University. No, no, my name is Jim St. Louis. It's just a way to connect. And once you get that connection, kind of the wall start to break down. They realize I'm not some mean nasty guy trying to do something wrong. I'm just there for conversation. I'm there for connection. What I really want to do is find out who you are.

Jennifer Trammell: 11:18

There's a big change happening right now affecting fundraisers, like you, over the next decade, up to $70 trillion will shift from aging Baby Boomers to Millennials. And this wealth transfer. It's already underway. So are you prepared to work with millennials? Start by downloading Insightful's, free ebook, 9 insights fundraisers need to know to prepare for millennial major donors. Just head to insightfulphilanthropy.com/ebook. That's insightfulphilanthropy.com/ebook to get the download with nine things you need to know about millennials from millennials. Insightful philanthropy.com/ebook. And now back to our conversation with Jim St. Louis and Paul Koulogeorge. Throughout your relationship together, this passion around the library has emerged as a theme, Paul, tell us more about why the library has become an area of focus for you.

Paul Koulogeorge: 12:22

From the very first time I made a donation to wash University, which was the first year that I was an alumni. I gave it to the library. And you know, when I graduated in'88, my first donation would have been probably in '89. And they had you select the box, where do you want the institution the money to go to, and I was looking at, you know, arts and science where, of course I went to, or sports which I was active in. And then I saw the library. And my gut reaction was, you know, I don't think anyone would give money to the library, that's probably why should give my money to support something that may be overlooked. And obviously, I was a user of the library when I was there. And I think it's, you know, something of great importance, you know, that we always have the saying that, you know, nobody graduates from the library, but nobody is able to graduate without going through the library. So it's something that impacts everybody, but no one person owns it. So I kind of felt like, it was something that I should support. And the more I got involved with the library and various roles over the years, the more I really understood the power of the library, especially in this digital age, when people often think Well, why do you need a library, I've got an iPhone, and the library does so much more, really, it's the Chief Information Officer of the university, that head librarian is head of information. And information is even more important, more crucial today than it has ever been. In addition, it's data management. This is a large research university, every professor there is doing research, they wouldn't be there if they weren't researchers. And the research is actually headquartered in the library. They have a data management system, and they store you know, incredible amounts of information from all these studies, all these professors are doing. So it's actually more relevant than ever, the role of a library. And as we come more of a digital age, it really has to be invested in to take it from books and you know, card catalogs, to software and these large servers that need to store all this information.

Jennifer Trammell: 14:11

That role of the library is changing, but more important than ever. So you've engaged not only philanthropically with the library by making donations to that area of the university, but you've also taken on a leadership position there. How did that come about? About six or

Paul Koulogeorge: 14:26

seven years ago, the head librarian at the time actually came to Philadelphia and spoke in my house. So we did an alumni event in my house and because I'd given donations over the years to the library, my house was selected as an ideal location to have the librarian speaking. And in talking to the librarian and making a connection, I think probably Jim having some assistance in this. I was asked to serve on the National Council, and there is a National Council for every school of the University, the medical school, the law school, the architecture school. The library has this council which is a group of alumni who share a passion for that institution, some of them have made libraries part of their career, others are just interested in wanting to support them. Many are collectors of books or other printed materials. And so I started a role of attending Library Council meetings, we meet several times a year. And we talk even outside of in person meetings, to give advice and counsel and guidance wherever possible to the head librarian and their team of leaders. And then over the years, I've moved up, and I am now the chairman of the Library Council for washing University. And so I work even more closely with that institution. And, you know, it's been very rewarding for me, because as I said, it's probably evolving faster than any other institution on campus. And it's one that people often don't think has a purpose anymore, when in reality, the purpose is even greater than it's ever been.

Jennifer Trammell: 15:49

Jim, you've had a role in filling these national councils. What do you look for when trying to match up alumni or another interested community member with the councils? And how does that tie with your work in philanthropy?

Jim St. Louis: 16:02

national councils is one of the volunteer opportunities that are at a fundraisers disposable at WashU. We have smaller national councils in each area, each school, we have smaller ones for public health, in for other areas that we do, I use that as a way to engage our donors to a greater depth. In general, my opinion is that the more you were involved, the more you know, the more that you can make a difference, the more you're going to be able to want to give back. And that's not always monetarily, that's also with your advice. That's also with your passion. It's also with just your time, and all those things are really important to us. We really lean on our alumni and our friends and our national councils. And if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be where we are today,

Paul Koulogeorge: 16:54

I can add on to what Jim was saying, I think one thing that's been so valuable is by meeting in person, several times a year and having these, you know, day long sessions with the library and their team, we have a deep understanding of what they're working on what their priorities are, what their strategies are. And there's often great linkage. So we'll have somebody speaking about a project that the librarian is made working on with a professor. And, you know, our council, people will jump in saying, you know, I'd love to play a role with that maybe I can financially donate to it, or maybe I can serve on that committee, or I know somebody that was doing similar work at a different institution, I want to connect you two together. And so there's often ways where we can provide linkage. In addition, you know, the members of the council have a variety of work experiences, there's lawyers, there's doctors, I'm 35 years in the world of marketing. And so we often can play a role too, because we just have a background in that area. And it's, you know, a great example of that is the library did a major expansion and renovation a few years ago, and there were some people that had background in construction and leaving big 100 million dollar plus renovation projects, on buildings. And that's a very unique skill set. It's not something you use often in your life, but they were able to kind of help and had thoughts and ideas and just were able to, to, you know, brainstorm with them about things that they had worked on their projects that then help the institution of the Washington University.

Jim St. Louis: 18:19

You know, another thing is that those groups of alumni and friends last a long time, while there's a usually a five to six year overlap, our Dean's are head of our libraries, they also only serve a limited amount of yours. So there's a way for us to have continuity, and to have a little bit of evening out of our leadership. So Paul Reno right now, he was asked to serve as the chair of the libraries from one librarian, and now he's transitioning into a new person. And so there is a consistency there that allows us to have stability. And it's something that we really appreciate.

Unknown: 19:00

Jim, you mentioned the new head librarian who's come in. Paul, you and the council did something kind of unique when it comes to budgeting. Tell us about that. This is a great example of how the National Council can work with the University to make a difference. WashU had an opening for their head librarian position as a vice provost level. And we were able to recruit an incredible lady Mimi Coulter from Stanford University. And she's coming over with a wealth of knowledge working both in private industry and in academia. And we wanted to make sure she had every possible tool and resource at her disposal. The way that the academic year works in the financial year at Washington diversity is starts on July 1 and goes through June 30. But she was going to be starting in September. So it was going to be quite a while before she'd have a new budget in place. And we want to make sure she had a kitty of money to do things that maybe weren't budgeted for by the you know, in the previous year. So every member of the National Council put in an amount of whatever they are felt that comfortable was, but everyone participated. And we actually had a pot of money for her to use in any way she saw fit as she started her new position as head librarian. So that's a great example how the council can work together, you know, philanthropicly or strategically or in this case, both.

Jennifer Trammell: 20:16

It really is. We talked before about the events that you've done in Philadelphia, we've talked about your role with the library. And a few years ago, you had a really cool way to bring them together, Jim and Paul, tell us about this uniquely Wash U event in Philly.

Unknown: 20:32

I mentioned earlier that I'm a big believer in creating experiences for the alumni in Philadelphia and finding just unique things that you couldn't do if you're going to another school. And I think a great example of this was the Thomas Jefferson books. Washington University in St. Louis happens to have the largest collection of Thomas Jefferson's books are one of the largest collections of his books. And that's because when he passed, he donated to a family member up in Boston, and through another series of inheritance, they ended up in the collection of washington University, and we did an event where we brought a collection of those books, so that we could actually see them, if you put on gloves, you can actually touch them and hold them, which is pretty amazing to hold something that was in the same hand as one of our founding fathers. And we had a speaker from Washington University, come tell us about the importance of these books and of Thomas Jefferson. And as a member of the National Council of the library, this was even more impactful, because it really shows the power of the library. There's a tremendous quote that I love to use from Albert Einstein, which is the only thing you need to know in life is the location of your library. And it's something that you know, if that really rings true in a moment, like this was, you know, the library of Thomas Jefferson then was part of the library washing University. And now it's part of your history and tradition by being an alumni of this university.

Jim St. Louis: 21:57

And from a fundraising standpoint, Jennifer, this was a home run, you know, you have the Constitution Hall, you have the liberty bow, you have all this rich history in Philadelphia. And we were able to bring a piece of that, that we had stored in St. Louis, to Philadelphia, and we rented out the multipurpose room at the Constitution Center. It was right above the visitor center, we had dinner there, we had the head librarian come out with one of her associates, it was just a great way for us to connect our alums and family and friends to the university.

Jennifer Trammell: 22:37

Very cool. Gentlemen. Paul, let me ask when it comes to giving what's important to you.

Jim St. Louis: 22:44

Yeah, you know,

Unknown: 22:45

I stated a little bit earlier that it's not just about making a donation, it's about making a difference. And I'm a big believer of that, that, it's got to be something that I'm personally passionate about, obviously, that you have that interest. But it's also got to be something where I feel that it can make a unique difference, and that I you know, I can have a roll with it. So obviously, with the library, you know, I not only give money to it, but that I am involved with the strategy and the prioritization of what we do with the library system. And I'm also personally, I tend to favor things where the money is going to be really needed and, and will have a appointed impact result. So I'm very involved, for example, in theater, but rather than give it to the biggest theater in town, I tend to give money to the smallest theaters in town, because they need it the most. And you'll see the biggest difference at a major, you know, institution University, some things like the medical school tend to be very well funded, and, and deservedly so. So I'd probably considered you know, departments or part of the university that are less, maybe fancy or, or less in Vogue, and one where you know, dollars can really impact the results. So that's something I kind of just personally, maybe it's an underdog focus, or places where I feel like I can actually pinpoint and say, that didn't happen unless I had been there. And so you really feel the power

Jennifer Trammell: 24:15

like that rooting for the underdog giving to those areas that aren't as flashy, maybe don't have the same level of recognition. Jim, you've worked with Paul now for years, more than a decade. What do you think Paul's impact on the university has been so far?

Jim St. Louis: 24:32

has had a tremendous impact on why shoo in a variety of different ways. I mentioned earlier, one of the things that I look for when I'm talking with all of our alumni and parents and friends, is I'm looking for potential leaders. And Paul was somebody that was engaged and you know, he has a great personality and he can talk to lots of people and for me, it's really easy to like, and I think that that's actually just one of his qualities. that really translates well, as a leader of our regional cabinet in Philadelphia, as well as the library National Council. So Paul has an impact in helping others to see the bigger vision, he's able to stand in front of a crowd, he's able to, you know, go through the talking points of what we want to get across at a big event is able to be at a small event and talk about libraries or talk about the speaker that we're bringing in. And that has a huge impact, because not everybody wants to talk to a fundraiser. Sometimes they want to talk to someone they see as well. He's an alum, like, there's just so many different ways that you can impact a person's giving, besides just saying, This is what I, this is what I give and why.

Paul Koulogeorge: 25:49

And thank you, that's very kind.

Jennifer Trammell: 25:51

Paul, your dream for a fundraiser. So Jim, thinking about our other fundraising professionals who are listening? How do they go about finding amazing philanthropic partners like Paul?

Jim St. Louis: 26:04

That is a hard question. You know, I had a mentor that once told me, Jim, the biggest thing that you have to do is you have to be there. So I have to have my boots on the ground, in the city trying to meet with people. Now, different universities have different approaches. And I am really tasked towards working with, you know, a small amount of donors. I'm not supposed to be working with the 3000 donors on a monthly basis. But at the same time, I have to be there, and I have to know as many people as I can, because you never know who that next Punku GA is going to be when they, you know, pop up at an event, and I need to be able to engage them, and I need to be able to talk with them. So I need to be present,

Jennifer Trammell: 26:57

that presence really makes a difference.

Jim St. Louis: 26:59

It really does being present, is one of the most important things that I think any fundraiser can do. Whatever your role is, whether you're working for a small theater in Philadelphia, they have to be present, they have to be there to talk to Paul, about what his passion is, what his vision could be, and what impact Paul could make on that particular theater, whether it's sponsoring a show, or helping out a director? Or is it you know, something else that they have going on at the theater? Maybe it's a capital improvement that Paul's gonna be able to help?

Unknown: 27:33

Alright, Paul, from a donor's perspective, Jim isn't the only fundraising professional you've worked with other organizations have have come to you in the past? What is a "Yes, please always do this?" And what is one "No, never don't do that" for our fundraising friends.

Paul Koulogeorge: 27:51

You know, it's funny, you should say that. There are certainly other institutions where, you know, my, our names have come up. And, you know, I would say the harassing strategy is probably not recommended, where I will not give the institution but a big institution here in Philadelphia, where, you know, it's literally calling every other day, you haven't returned my call yet? Can you please call me? And, you know, is this the right number and get it? You know, I, but I think the biggest thing, besides not harassing people, is really, you know, if you have to have a reason for why you're connecting, so what is that reason to connect, and, you know, it's not just saying, Hey, I've got a great opportunity for you to give money for this institution, I think it's more of you know, this institution is doing some great things, and we'd love to access your skill set, or, you know, we think you'd really have a specific connection to this one part of what we do, and you might be able to help us. Or we can partner together to really join forces, but I think it's, it's coming with it from a standpoint of mutual help. And coming from a standpoint of, you know, we want to work together, and it's not one sided. You know, a classic example of this, you know, working in the business world, like I have is, you know, you don't call up somebody and say, you know, hey, you know, hire me for this job. It's more, I want to meet you for coffee. And let me see what your issues are, and how I can help you with my mind networking and my field of influence. And then you can maybe help me, but you know, when you call up someone and say, let's meet for coffee, it's about let's help each other. Let's let's get together and I'll help you with your problems. You'll notice my problems, but it's some type of mutual benefit. And so I guess my biggest lesson from that is, you know, if you're a call somebody up, it's not making it completely one sided. It's trying to figure out a way to make it two sided.

Jennifer Trammell: 29:43

And that's how we can do more good together.

Jim St. Louis: 29:46

Working with donors. It can be very tricky because I hear what Paul was talking about, about, you know, finding a way to connect, but that very first meeting is important for fundraiser you have to listen, whether it's at an event, whether it's just on campus, because, you know, they're they're raising their child or their back for a reunion. And there, you have to be able to connect quickly with a donor, or potential donor. So that when you try and have a personal meeting, you aren't going there trying to hear what their passions are, be able to relate back what your institution is doing.

Jennifer Trammell: 30:26

Know More. Raise More. is brought to you by insightful. Remember, for insights on Millennials from millennials, download insightful, free ebook, nine insights fundraisers need to know to prepare for millennial major donors, just head to insightfulphilanthropy.com/ebook. That's insightfulphilanthropy.com/ebook

Paul Koulogeorge: 30:52

Big keyword dimension with passion. And it's, you know, how do you understand someone's passions, what gets them excited, and what and, you know, it's, I'm sure Jim does a fair amount of research before meeting people just to understand them. But a lot of it's just by, you know, sitting down face to face at zoom calls can only do so much. It's really, you know, sitting at someone's house and looking at their collection of art and saying, Wait, this must be really important to you, why is this all over your house or, you know, understanding, you know, who's on their social media page, you know, I'm reading all this stuff that you're talking about, you're really passionate about the Third World, and you know, why she does a lot in the third world, but it's, it's trying to tap into those passions, and people don't wear it on a lapel pin, it doesn't stay, you know, these are my passions, you know, you you've really got to make the effort and interact with people and see them in their in their world, go to their office, go to their house, go go to their community. And that's where you really start to maybe understand that they may not even understand how important some of this stuff is to them. But you know, it's in this age where we're doing everything over the phone, because we have to from a health reason, I imagine it's a lot harder, but it the legwork has to be done. Because you'll get so much more out of that. That conversation and so much more out of that donor, I would think.

Jim St. Louis: 32:08

Yeah, you know, and it's really hard in this today's world, being able to meet one on one, do you feel safe? Do you not feel safe? And that's a question that I now have to ask that I never used to. And it's important, though, for me to get back to meeting donors one on one in a safe way.

Jennifer Trammell: 32:29

It really all goes back to that human connection. And I think people are so hungry for that after the last 18 months, two years that we've had. So that'll be a really important takeaway for fundraisers. Yeah. So this has just been a really great example of relationship building going back years. Jim, you know, that initial connection back at reunion, Paul, all of the work that you guys have done in Philadelphia together. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Jim St. Louis: 32:57

Thank you for having us. Thank you,

Jennifer Trammell: 33:01

to people who are certainly doing good in the world through philanthropy, and their partnership, really, a dream donor. Five key takeaways from our conversation with Paul and Jim. Number one, take the long view to building relationships with donors. Look at all these two have accomplished together over 15 years. If Jim had gone in looking for a quick gift, he may have gotten it, but never would have ended up with this genuine relationship that has led to engaging a much broader base and Philadelphia with Paul's support, and an incredible leader for the Library Council. Number two have a genuine desire to learn people's stories, and to learn about their passions and interests. Number three reunions work. Remember that's where Paul and Jim made their initial connection, for be present and ready to listen. And number five, take the time to do your homework. Get to know your donors before those initial meetings and make it a valuable interaction for them. When you better know your donors, learn their passions and truly engage them with your mission. You can raise more to keep doing good in the world together. Thanks for joining us for no more, raise more. I'm your host Jennifer Trammell.